Buffy! BUFFY BUFFY BUFFY!

[annathepiper]

Well, that was fun.

Very fun to see the old high school back again, and rather gigglesome to see Buffy reacting to the new principal. And Buffy getting a reason to actually hang out at the school on camera. ;)

Thumbs up on Xander being actually boss-like and construction-y ("Contracty goodness!"), and helping out with the elimination of the nastybad spirits.

Less Willow angst than I was expecting, though this is actually a bit of a good thing. She got plenty of angst at the tail end of last season, and I can buy her spending some healing time in England with Giles. Besides, excuse to have Giles on camera s'more. Yay!

Of course, though, what I was waiting for was SPIKE!

And the poor boy appears to have flipped now that he has a soul back in him. Not surprised by this; I was suspecting some level of flippage was going to happen. I didn't see coming him trying to cut the soul out, but I could totally buy that. spazzkat does not this new pathetic incarnation of Spike -- but me, I am not surprised they're taking this angle if nothing else because it's going to delay Buffy finding out he has a soul if he's too bonkers to tell her. Which makes complete and total sense.

Paul also doesn't like Spike's new hair... but again, I'm not surprised, if it's growing back in his original color. Though this also suggests that vamps actually do grow new hair. ;) Or else that Spike had been regularly dying it or something.

The sequence of Spike hallucinations at the end was pretty keen and I am wondering, given the Master's dialogue about going back to the beginning, whether the suspicion I had that Spike was going to revert to his William self has any basis in what's to come.

The one thing I don't get is, what the fuck was the business in Istanbul at the beginning, and the Spike-like briefly glimpseable figure there?

Comments

[avram]

Interesting that (1) Willow seems to be using magic again (with Giles telling her that it isn't an addiction, and she's going to have to learn to deal with it), and (2) that they aren't bringing her back to the main crowd yet, implying (3) that we're going to see a few plots soon that magic-using Willow would be able to solve quick-like if she were around. Or maybe that there'll be an England Willow-and-Giles plot. Or both.

I didn't like Spike's hair either. I wasn't sure what the heck he was doing there. He shouldn't have a strong emotional attachment to the school, he should be at the factory or at that other place he and Dru and Angel used to hang out in. It just seemed overly coincidental to me.

I like the new principal. Looks like they are getting back to basics. I can see this season not sucking.

I was wondering about the three undead folks -- are these actual people we saw getting killed in the earlier seasons? It's been too long for me, I don't remember.

I didn't think that thing at the end was a hallucination, I thought it was the Big Bad for this season. If it can change shape, I predict it'll be turning into Tara at some point to play with Willow's head.

[avram]

Support for my not-a-hallucination theory: The last old enemy we saw was the Master, who Spike's never met. (At least, not that we know of.)

Spike and the Master

[solarbird]

I'm thinking that Spike met the master some long time ago - that he was around in one of the 19th century flashbacks. Not 100% sure, though.

(I also am of the opinion that Spike was not hallucinating, though that doesn't translate into anyone else being able to see what he's seeing. I'm also pretty convinced that his hideout room is right underneath the principle's office, and therefore right over the hellmouth; that whatever it is with him needs him (as a souled vampire) for some important ritual thing - the Lady knows that vampire-with-a-soul seems to be all over the frikkin' prophecies. So.)

[tinlail.livejournal.com]

The notion occured to me over the summer that Spike might be the vampire with the soul that is so important and that Angel is a complete waste of time for the law firm.

That would be funny. Alas it also doesn't fit in to a series well.

[avram]

That would be very funny. Especially if the Buffy gang never find out about the prophecies and the Angel gang never find out how things work out.

Re:

[annathepiper]

Me... I think Spike's human now, and Mimi agrees with me. The reasons why are 1) Spike's significantly less pale now, 2) his hair is growing back in, and 3) she said, re: him trying to "cut it out", that she thinks it was his heart that he was trying to cut out, which makes complete and total sense if he wigged out because IT WAS BEATING.

[clauclauclaudia]

It was definitely his heart he was trying to cut out, which may or may not mean it was beating: it's also one of the ways to kill a vampire.

[annathepiper]

Well, if he were still a vamp and wanted to kill himself, I'd have expected that he'd just try to stake himself, rather than to try to cut out his own heart. Way easier! And if you want to talk even more easy, "step outside at high noon". Poof. No more vamp. ;) Besides, taken in conjunction with his altered appearance -- and Buffy certainly seemed flabbergasted by the changes in him, she even asked him if he was real -- IMHO it argues strongly for him being human now.

Another thing Mimi and I agree on -- I really like the idea of him being human now if nothing else because we've done the "vampire with a soul" schtick. Spike is not Angel, but still, having Spike remain a vamp would to some degree be repetitive for Joss. AND, we do know from over on Angel that a vamp becoming human again is not entirely unprecedented; it happened to Darla. And she wigged out pretty heavily as well.

[clauclauclaudia]

Point by point: yes, there are easier ways for a vampire to commit suicide, but Spike always had a penchant for the Romantic and dramatic. In season 4 he tried to kill himself with this elaborate staking thing. Anguish at what he's done to Buffy could definitely lead to literal self-dissection in Spike's case. ;-)

I agree that "human now" is a new and interesting story. Though it'd also be lots of fun if Spike and not Angel were at the center of those "vampire with a soul" prophecies. Heh.

But Darla didn't go vamp -> human... she went vamp -> completely dead -> resurrected as human. Angel, of course, *did* go vamp -> human, but then those 24 hours were taken away and everyone but Angel forgot about it. Some fans said that the demon Spike visited at the end of last season was the same sort as the one whose blood turned Angel human, but I don't think so and the shooting scripts give no indication of it.

And I think you're right, the demon did answer the literal thing Spike asked. I'm just not sure whether it was a monkey's paw or not--the writers have opinions on whether it was Spike or the viewers who were faked out, but I won't believe it until I see it on screen one way or another.

Re:

[annathepiper]

Good point on Spike's penchant for the overly dramatic. The boy was, after all, originally called William the Bloody because his poetry was bloody awful, but that didn't stop him from keeping composing it. ;)

It would be quite amusing, yes, if it turned out to be Spike at the center of the prophecies. :) Dar mentioned references we've had to rituals that require a vampire with a soul, but I don't remember any such things... all I can remember offhand in earlier seasons has been specific prophecies that talk about "the vampire with a soul". The, not "a".

And yeah, the policy of 'wait to see what they show us on screen' is generally advisable when dealing with ol' Joss. Who documentedly lies through his teeth to mislead viewers. ;)

[avram]

I think we've had bigger translation problems than a the/a mixup in the past. (Damn prophets. As long as they're prophesizing, why can't they just get some gift of tongues things going and prophesize in whatever language the good guys will be using at the time the prophecy ripens?)

[annathepiper]

Well, fortunately, at least thus far, the good guys have been pretty good about having somebody on hand who actually speaks wacky ancient languages. ;) E.g., Giles, e.g., Wesley. Heck, even Jonathan knows ancient Babylonian! Obviously, people in the Buffy universe are rather better educated on ancient tongues than we are.

[annathepiper]

And oh yeah -- the kicker of all of this is, Spike never asked for his soul back. At no point during his encounter with the demon in the cave did the words "I want my soul back" leave his lips. What he asked was, "Make me what I was, so Buffy can get what she deserves."

I think the demon took him quite literally. At the time, Spike was a vamp. The only thing that he could have been before being a vamp was, well, HUMAN. Classic "be careful what you wish for" scenario. ;)

[mamishka.livejournal.com]

AHEM! Shouldn't this say, "Mimi thinks Spike is human, and I agree with her."?? After all, I was the one who figured it out and that brought it up first. >;-)

[annathepiper]

Well, I'll claim a little credit for the possibility actually having occurred to me, dear, when we saw the season closer -- because at the time I did wonder whether "make me what I was" was going to make him revert to being William, i.e., his human self... however, you did make the conclusion now based on evidence in this episode. ^_^ So, yes, I stand mostly corrected. ;)

Re:

[annathepiper]

I buy the not-a-hallucination theory now that Mimi has come home and we've watched the episode again because she missed it. Several lines of relevant dialogue that I missed. :)

[holyoutlaw.livejournal.com]

I liked the episode also, even though I'm not as much of a Buffy buff as the folks I saw it with. I liked Dawn's getting a gang together, and I liked the principal.

Did you notice just before the previews the splash screen said "Buffy the Guidance Counselor"? Funny!

[tinlail.livejournal.com]

I will go on record as not liking the mini-scooby gang. I don't think that Dawn is too whiny to stay interesting with a lot of screen time. No ideal about Istanbul, kepted expected to see Spike there.

[solarbird]

We got a glimpse of somebody that I thought might have been Spike - through a closing door. But I'm not sure.

Also...

[solarbird]

...I note for the record that I referred to them as the Scrappy Doo gang before the episode was over.

However, I'm not convinced that they are, in fact, doomed to suck.

Re: Also...

[annathepiper]

Hee hee! Scrappy Gang. Hehehehehehehe.

Re: Also...

[clauclauclaudia]

They may not suck, but they will inevitably retread territory we've seen before. I love Dawn, but I want to see her in relation to the characters we're already invested in, and then dealing with one-off friends, not with her own Scrappy Gang (and yes, that name is all over the net). I think this is a concession that Joss really doesn't know what to do with his adolescent characters once they leave high school.

[princessheacock.livejournal.com]

"spazzkat does not this new pathetic incarnation of Spike"

I assume the missing word is like?

I didn't much like Spike either but I wasn't a big fan either. I really feel they were trying to do too many different things in the episode and could have left Spike out of this one to be introduced in a later one.

...And was anyone else bothered by how everyone kept assuming Buffy was Dawn's mom? She doesn't NEAR look old enough!

"The notion occured to me over the summer that Spike might be the vampire with the soul that is so important and that Angel is a complete waste of time for the law firm."

This is a BIG fear on the Angel board I frequent (Stranger Things (http://www.stranger-things.net/forum/)) -- That they will use Spike being souled as an excuse to say all these prophecies, etc are for Spike (a character NOT on the show) not Angel -- and an assurance they keep trying to pull is that Spike isn't on the show. There ARE people that haven't even seen Buffy and if the big shan-shu prophecy was for a character they hadn't even seen/cared about it would be a big cheat on ME's part. However, we don't exactly trust ME to care about THAT either...

"Obviously, people in the Buffy universe are rather better educated on ancient tongues than we are."

Wouldn't you be better educated in ancient languages if the tomes of your trade were likely to BE in that language? Not that many years ago, children (high class at least) were regularly taught both Greek and Latin so they could read the ancient manuscripts themselves. Giles and WEsley are Watchers, who have to do research on the supernatural, etc. Jonathan dealt with witchcraft -- and maybe of the manuscripts of spells are OLD and in odd languages. In games I have played in, people go out of their way to learn the languages that will make it easier to research and learn new spells for their characters.

Even today, in other countries, many children grow up learning English as well as their native language because that is now the language of trade.

"And oh yeah -- the kicker of all of this is, Spike never asked for his soul back."

I think they were too cute by half in trying to keep secret what Spike was asking for in that scene.

"...I note for the record that I referred to them as the Scrappy Doo gang before the episode was over."

Everyone on the net is scalling them the Scrappy Gang since we first heard that Dawn was getting friends in the first episode. I think it's a no-brainer.

I liked Dawn/the Dawn plotline much more after this episode than before. She seems to be going somewhere now. (Although I want to know what happened to Janice, her friend from last year. They did somewhat try to make her an outcast that she wasn't, really, from before.)

[annathepiper]

Oh yes, yes, I left out the word "like" up there. Paul didn't care for this version of Spike.

I do agree that it would be quite lame even if it would be funny if Spike upstaged Angel. Which is another reason I am actually hoping that Spike has in fact turned human and isn't a vamp anymore at all. James Marsters has, at least, been quoted as saying that Spike wasn't going to follow the same route Angel did as I recall; certainly, making him human would qualify as not following the same route. ;)

And yes, I think Joss & Company were too cute by half trying to keep a lid on what Spike really wanted, but it made total sense IMHO -- hiding it not only from the viewers but from Spike himself. He certainly seemed conflicted about the whole matter. :)

I wasn't particularly bothered by the Buffy-as-Mom jokes. No, she doesn't look old enough, but then again, she is Dawn's mother figure now. And she was certainly acting Mom-like, enough to possibly throw an observer who wasn't paying close enough attention, at least until said observer clued in. Which the principal did, very quickly.

And yes, I liked Dawn much better in this episode. Losing the whining makes her an infinitely more enjoyable character. And I was very charmed by a lot of the lines she kept throwing off to her sister.

[annathepiper]

And oh yeah -- obviously, I had no problems whatsoever with including Spike in this episode, even if he wasn't in it much. I disagree that he could have been easily left out. No, he didn't have any direct bearing on the events at hand... but it seems to me as if they're setting it up such that he's been captured somehow by whatever that was lurking in the basement of the school, which by implication also seems to be the big bad thing that Anya's demon friend claimed was "rising". It would make a kind of sense if it's hiding down there practically on top of the Hellmouth.

Why it's got Spike is anybody's guess... but I expect we'll find that out.

At any rate, as an avowed Spike fan, I would have been most put out if we hadn't had at least a glimpse of what had happened to him after last season's closer. ;)