This deserves a link

[annathepiper]

claudia_ had this posted on her journal; it deserves to be passed around.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/angiej/60881.html

Edited later

This is a followup post from the same user, thoughtfully relayed to me by llachglin:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/angiej/61349.html

Comments

[princessheacock.livejournal.com]

Has this ever been corrobated with news stories or anything? if THAT many people are disappearing, you'd think it'd be somewhere, if only web sites like ACLU online.

I am quite skeptical of what this seems to be implying until I find corrobation elsewhere. I've posted in a couple of other places, hoping to get someone better than I at googling (cause I've tried everything I can think of at the moment) who can come up with something about it or for sure that it is basically just overreaction. Because unfortunately, I can't even seem to find a school name to make a phone call to them and find out :(

I am continuing to work on it.

Re:

[annathepiper]

It would be nice to know one way or another, yeah... whether it is true or whether it is overreaction, it does worry me that these kinds of stories are going around. I mention it on my own journal just because I'd like to know, one way or another.

Let me know if you find out anything.

[princessheacock.livejournal.com]

I guess-- I am primarily offended that so many are jumping to the conclusion that something this heinous is -true- and that our government is rounding these people up without a shred of proof.

I find it very hard to believe in our media environment (and a multi-national web that includes media NOT subject to our government at all) that something like this could go on long WITHOUT bringing forth outcries and newspaper articles and everything else involved. And she implies it has been going on for a while.

The one thing that I have found about Iraqis in Detroit _so far_ is this:
Iraqi exiles plan Hussein's ouster (http://www.freep.com/news/metro/shias10_20030210.htm)

But I'm not sure why this would necessitate phone numbers abruptly being cut off, etc.
But I DO know one reason families disappear is that they are in a Witness Protection Plan.

Another article I had pointed out to me was more of the "interesting" variety:
Saddam once received key to Detroit</a (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030326/D7Q11H0G0.html)

[clauclauclaudia]

Personally, I don't think the government has directly caused all those people to disappear. I posted it in my LJ, and got an immediate comment from a *Canadian* friend who has seen the same thing happen in his class. I think an unreasonable number of people have been detained, and I think that government investigations have made lots of people nervous and a lot of them are hiding out. The pattern is terribly sad, whatever the truth is.

[llachglin.livejournal.com]

The original poster has updated with two posts, the second of which seems to indicate that Ali is probably OK and in Amsterdam:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/angiej/61349.html

Re:

[annathepiper]

Thanks, Erik, for relaying that. As the original post was worthy of circulating, this one is as well. I'll edit my original post and put that link in with it.

Re:

[annathepiper]

See, that's the thing, Sarah... it's not exactly as if this kind of thing is without historical precedent in the United States. One has but to look back to WWII and the unlawful internment of Japanese citizens in this country rounded up then.

If the email chain letter I received from my aunt is any indication, there is at least some measure of sentiment in this country that "Muslim" equals "evil". There is apparently at least enough sentiment of this nature to get a chain letter circulating calling for a boycott of a stamp that honors a Muslim holiday, because of the acts that certain Muslim extremists have committed against the U.S. That's bigotry, plain and simple.

Today while I was waiting for my interview at Microsoft, I saw a bit of an article in the Wall Street Journal that was lying on the table in front of me. This issue of the paper talked about how law enforcement officials in this country have had the numbers of alleged suspicious activities skyrocket in past months--how they have been constantly at work investigating things that invariably turn out to be false alarms.

Even if the government isn't directly rounding people up on their own accord, I am honestly not hard pressed to believe that they're rounding up people out of having to investigate the sheer number of false alarms they may well be getting from people who jump the gun just because their innocent neighbor has the misfortune to be a Muslim from the Middle East.

I just don't have that much faith in people in general. I'd like to believe that people would be saner than to automatically assume that "Muslim" equals "evil"... but there was that chain letter my aunt sent me. People often don't think of these things when they're scared or outraged--don't get me wrong. People should still be outraged by the heinous acts committed on 9/11. But it's all too easy to let that fear get in the way of rational sense.

And I don't think a lot of people out there realize that.

[princessheacock.livejournal.com]

" See, that's the thing, Sarah... it's not exactly as if this kind of thing is without historical precedent in the United States. One has but to look back to WWII and the unlawful internment of Japanese citizens in this country rounded up then."

-I know-
What was the first thing I did when I saw it? I went out and looked for news. I did NOT think "That's impossible" and go on. I went out and looked for news. See, while I realize this happened in the past (I hope it couldn't now. But I'm not THAT naieve to think it couldn't and I'd be out there complaining with the best if it WAS. I can disagree with my government as vociferously as I agree with them when I am not made to feel that by disagreeing people are going to assume that means I think the government is everything THEY think it is) I have a hard time believing it happened "invisibly" even then!

We've got a lot of crackpots in America. I think our President has made it fairly clear that we are NOT supposed to be anti-Muslim in any way shape or form. But people have free speech even to be stupid. To counteract this, do you want the references to the people who have gone out of their way to defend Muslim mosques, partner to go shopping, etc with Muslim women that were nervous to go out on their own. Or, even, gasp, didn't treat Muslims as if they were any different than non-Muslims but just went on with their life.

There IS frustration because RIGHT NOW a lot of our problems are coming from a radical Islamic wing. (or seem to be. And this isn't helped when you have a convert to black Islam attacking his commanders with alleged shouts about "attacking our country" -- evidently soldiers attacking soldiers just isn't something that is common in our services!) But that does NOT mean that all or even most Americans feel this is a war against Islam.

But there are going to be some who do. Just as there are some who will blame the Jews no matter what happens. And there are some who will go and hide in the rural areas, convinced that the government is a bunch of thugs with no right to their money, etc. And we can't stop them from doing that without erasing things that make us (America) who we are.

All we can do is speak up and go "They aren't the majority. There are others who will help and will defend"

"This issue of the paper talked about how law enforcement officials in this country have had the numbers of alleged suspicious activities skyrocket in past months--how they have been constantly at work investigating things that invariably turn out to be false alarms."

That is to be expected, and good IMHO. People are scared of terrorism. Even as they go on with their lives, the idea that death and injury can come from the seemingly innocent and the things they used to ignore in their lives. They have not yet started to reconnect with neighbors. But they ARE becoming more aware of their surroundings. And the only thing they know how to do if something feels wrong is to call the police. Yes, this leads to lots of false alarms... But note it says "most" -- what about the rest. Have things been stopped because someone was paying attention and noticed something was stopped? Those are the kinds of questions you will never get the answer to on this world, I fear. But it is going to take eternal vigilance. And people are just getting used to that.

[Yikes. There is a max char limit!]

[princessheacock.livejournal.com]

And really we -- the individual Americans aware of what should be going on around us and what might be odd -- are the best chance America has to defend herself against terrorism, IMHO. The police can't be everywhere and it's VERY hard to make laws against the law-breakers.

And I see nothing wrong with the police questioning people in pursuit of making sure things are false alarms (and IMHO if it becomes obvious people are using the alarm system to "harass" a certain family, the police should prosecute that as well!) If they aren't allowed to investigate (ask questions, etc) then they can't figure out if something IS a false alarm.

Just like if police step out of bounds they should be, of course.

But they still have to be able to investigate. even if it means stopping me on the street and asking me what I am doing out there. And such.Isn't that what all those Neighborhood Block Watch programs were about? People keeping an eye out for things in their neighborhood that idnd't look right?

And I think this isn't as focused as it could be. sorry

[annathepiper]

Don't worry about not necessarily being focused, hon. It's okay. You had a lot to say, and it was obvious to me, so no problem.

Now, that said... you don't need to offer me references on people out there who are going out of their way to defend Muslim folks. I don't need to look any further than my own circle of acquaintances to be aware that such things do happen out there. See the comment agrumer made in response to me, on this very topic. But I am grateful to hear that you too are aware of these things. See, we both, I think--despite some fundamental differences we may have on certain issues--are both acknowledging that there is variety out there in terms of what people do believe on this issue.

Thank you, regardless. Hearing from someone on this issue who is approaching it from a different tangent than I am helps keep me honest.