Clean lemony fresh victory is MINE

[annathepiper]

Something I didn't include in yesterday's Jam is that Rags was in serious need of restringing. But I didn't want to restring before or during Jam, since, as I've said before, nylon strings are hell for settling in.

So after everybody had left, I took all the strings off (using solarbird's handily provided string-winder frob thingie). At which point Dara remarked on how very dirty the guitar's neck was, so we broke out some Murphy's oil soap and some Old English lemon oil, and Dara went to work with intensive cleaning. It was amazing how much oil the wood slurped up, and how much contrast was brought out between the frets and the surrounding wood. Dara got lots and lots of gunk off of there, which isn't really surprising given that the last time the instrument had had this kind of treatment was when I got him.

Rags therefore wound up looking not half-bad, which was pretty nifty. But even niftier was actually putting on the strings. For the guitarists reading this, they are M160 Martin Classic Silverplated (Copper on Nylon) Ball End High Tension ones.

And they are astonishing. I actively gaped at how much more volume and clarity and purity of sound my little Ragamuffin was able to produce with these strings on there. AND! Dara then proceeded to show me some nifty strumming tricks she's picked up from her mandolin and bouzouki work--things like playing way down towards my bridge, a trick which makes Rags start sounding a lot like a metal-stringed guitar, and even makes him able to growl a little. A trick with strumming at an angle rather than straight down does fun things with letting me get the best of both my low end and the high end. And strumming as close as possible to dead center of the instrument gets a stunning liquid, pure sort of sound I did not know this guitar was capable of producing, especially in my hands.

So this is pretty damned cool all around, and I need to try to absorb all this nifty new data and see what I can do with it to improve my pick technique. Playing in the center of the instrument forces me to pick with more delicate motions, lest I dig into the wood of the neck. Playing down near the bridge on the other hand brings out every little nuance of sound, so I can hear a lot better where I'm screwing something up. And, not holding my hand over the soundhole does wonders for making the guitar heard.

I'm looking forward to integrating this data--and starting to practice some barre chords as well. If I get all this stuff down on Rags, the thought of doing it on a way better guitar just makes me swoon.

Comments

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

not sure why, but flatpicking on a nylon string guitar always makes me cringe. You given any thought to playing more clasical styles?

And higher tention will add volume, that impressed me too. But watch your guitar, make sure Rags likes them too. My martin 000XM didn't like my atempt at heavier strings.

[annathepiper]

I haven't put active thought into classical styles, no; two reasons. 1) The main reason I own a classical is because I got it for free, and 2) the stuff I tend to want to play is either straight-up folk or else Elvis Presley songs, neither of which really call for classical techniques, I suspect. ;)

That said, I'm not adverse to expanding my horizons and learning something new! It occurs to me as well that if I get that Cargo I'm lusting after, that'll be a standard and that can better serve for the stuff I typically want to play. But keeping Rags around for practicing classical styles wouldn't suck either.

Good point about the high tension question just because yeah, Rags did pop his bridge with those metal strings... but so far he seems pretty happy with the Martins. I'll be monitoring.

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

i haddn't known what brand sooj's little guitar was, other wise i would have commented more when you brought it up yesterday.

Though i wonder, what draws you to them? As far as carbon fiber, Rainsong sounds SOOOO nice. From what i've heard ot sooj's Cargo, it sounded odly like an Ovation. Have you looked into some of the higher end Ovations?

I just did a lot of shopping around and research into guitars before getting my Parkwood. Makes me really interested in the reasons for people's choices in guitars.

[annathepiper]

I'm drawn to the Cargo mostly because I've actually played one, and I really, really liked it; I've played stealthcello's. The thing that sells me on it is that it's the size of Rags but has much more attitude to it, which I'm thinking would make it an ideal busking guitar for those rare occasions that I actually go out and busk with solarbird.

I am not familiar with Ovations so I have no basis for comparison--though considering that the Cargo would run me a solid K and then some, that's pretty high end for my blood. ;)

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

Before you fall in love too hard, i'd really recomend playing the feild a little. I started looking at baratones and jumbo bodies, but after playing a bunch i found i liked dreadnaughts better. Then even after I fell in love with my baby, i kept looking. There was even a nice Yamaha that cought my eye for a while.

As far as the size of the body, that's not really as important as most people think. Sooj isn't big but plays that massive jumbo. The most important thing is how it sounds. And if you're thinking of busking, volume is going to be important.

and i feel really silly IMing through posting comments on live journal. If anyone wants to IM me, i'm online, like, ALL THE TIME on AIM and Yahoo-IM. i'm talking a lot, and have lots of questions, but i'm also only just getting to know everyone.

[annathepiper]

Oh, I assure you, I've spent a bit at Trading Musician playing various acoustics that they have there; I did that while Dara was there buying the bouzouki the other night. I was specifically checking to see if any of the instruments they had, many of which were significantly cheaper than the Cargo, would woo me away. Basically any time Dara and I walk into a music store, we're both liable to spend time saying hello to their inventory. ;)

I've also handled a Seagull Dreadnought, which I do admit sounded pretty nifty and is my current candidate for a fallback plan in case I can't get a Cargo for whatever reason, but again, it didn't slam me nearly as hard as the Cargo has.

Now, I know, size isn't necessarily vital to sounding good. But it is vital to me in the sense that I'm used to Rags' current size. And the Cargo is similarly sized and very light, which will make it extremely easy for me to carry around. This is important for me since I've had back and shoulder issues for a while and minimizing the load I'm carrying is a Good Thing.

Plus, as I said, the Cargo's got a lot of attitude and yes, volume. I loved playing Betsy's Cargo and it remains the instrument I'm most likely to want to busk with. But I'm willing to consider specific competitors. If an Ovation could bring it, I'll look at it too. ;)

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

I actualy don't like ovations, but i would encourage you to look at a martin DXM. it's what i was walking around with at norwestcon. He's nice and loud with that wonderful martin boomyness. He also plays nice and easy like a martin should.

[solarbird]

They're still nylon, and still specifically for classical guitars; "high tension" is a relative measure here. That said: what happened to your Martin? What should we be watching?

With my engineering changes to Rags's bridge, he's a fair bit stronger than he was when he was made. He is absolutely not capable of handling metal, of course, but he is a solid-wood guitar, not a laminate - I'd think that would help.

eta: Okay, so poking around, these "high tension" strings are 89lb, which is towards the high end of the typical range (as given by websearching anyway) of 75-90 for classical guitar strings, but well below the 200lb-ish range of metal. The standard (not-high-tension) Martin classical guitar strings are 85lb, so I think that's not a huge difference.

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

The OOOXM has a HPL top, it's not wood. i have NO CLUE how it did it, maybe it was texas heat or something... but the top has started to bulge out a good amount, but the inside of the guitar is perfectly flat. which makes me think the laminate has started to seperate from itsself. i went to really light strings and she sounds better and the bulging isn't growing. but it's raised the action a LOT, so it's not very fun to play, especialy barr chords.

My mother once had the bridge pop off her classical. she just wasn't watching the bridge, nothing she did wrong except not taking it to get repaired before it blew. Luckily the bridge didn't take any wood with it when it went. she took it in and got the bridge glued back on, and it's doing well now.

I was wondering about Rag's bridge... is it actualy SCREWED on?

[solarbird]

Ouch, yeah, you have delamination in progress. That's kind of amazing, really; I'd call it a manufacturing defect, except you see it way too often in laminates. Were it me, I'd VERY VERY CAREFULLY drill a couple of holes from the underside, then inject just crazy amounts of wood glue and then clamp it back flat.

Rag's bridge was originally screwed on and I think also glued not to the wood but to the finish on the wood. (I know for sure that the top was finished before the glue was applied. This is the Wrong Way.) I kind of suspect that the finish itself may have been the primary "glue," but that might be me being cynical.

Anyway, when strung with metal, the strings ripped the bridge partly off the guitar in four parts (in other words, some parts came off, other parts stayed on, with the two screws serving essentially as an axis for the primary breaking points. Fortunately, whoever did it saved all the parts that had separated, and I was able to lift the remaining adhered parts without doing any additional damage.

I then reassembled the bridge, glued and clamped it with good carpenter's glue, then routed out two channels perpendicular to the original wood grain (and the original breaks), cut two pieces of red oak to fit, and glued and clamped those into place in a second, separate gluing process. I then sanded again everything to make it nice and flat and smooth.

While all that was happening, I was also masking off the original bridge attachment point and sanding off the finish in that area - being careful to lift as little wood as possible, of course - and once the bridge was ready, used carpenter's glue, clamps, and those original screws again to secure the bridge to the guitar face. The screws at this point are largely cosmetic; I didn't like the bridge having obvious holes where screws should go.

This should've improved both structural strength of the bridge, its tension-bearing capacity (by spreading the tension load over a larger area), and just as importantly, its ability to communicate sound to the resonating chamber of the guitar. In other words, I built it back the way it should have been built to begin with, but wasn't.

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

Awesome, i was worried becouse screws are, like, the WORST way to transmit vibrations from the bridge to the guitar, and just felt like asking for more problems. And i would have NEVER been bold enough to atempt any of that myself. carpenter's glue on a guitar is scary, wouldn't hide glue be better?

The HPL on the martin is not a like normal ply, it's a carbon fiber laminate. like i said, it's not wood.

[solarbird]

Carpenter's glue is a little less flexible than hide glues (or so I understand) but that's okay here, I think. Carpenter's glue is also quite a bit stronger than hide glues, which, given all the broken parts, was critical. Also, I know seriously nothing about working with hide glues and know a little bit about carpenter glues - particularly how to work with them - so.

fwiw, the luthier I talked to about this later said I did what he'd have done.

Carpenter's glue works fine on wood-based laminates; I didn't know this was a different kind of laminate. I'd have to research what glue to use in this case, then, but this is the general approach to repairing all kinds of laminates - even plastics and fibreglass exotics.

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

my concern about carpenter's glue is how easily it can be removed. hide glue can be removed VERY easily. If anything goes wrong latter, i worry about how easy it will be to fix. it's like the horror stories i've heard of people polishing thier guitar with something that has, like, silicon in it or something, it gets into the finish, then years later they have to have the ageing and worn finish replaiced and it becomes MUCH harder and more dangerous for the guitar.

ya, i've thought of drilling holes under it and injecting epoxy, but it would take a lot of clamps and luthering equipment i don't have, and when it REALLY comes down to it, i don't think she's worth effort and expence. All i have considered doing on her is trying a lower bridge. Anything more and it starts getting easier and better to buy a new guiter.

[solarbird]

The removal problem did cross my mind and I decided really that if it came to that, we were better off replacing the guitar anyway. So I went with the option I had which would make further major repairwork as unlikely as I could make it. (Tho' I have since replaced the tuners. But that's really quite straightforward. Sure made him easier to tune, tho'.)

I agree about the expense, but I'm the sort who would do it for the experience. If it fails, eh, cheap guitar, and maybe you learn something. If it succeeds, you did something right. But then, I already have tools, so.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

Heh. Me, I have no musical ability, none: but I spent a lot of time hanging out with musicians when I was younger. There was this guitarist, see, the most beautiful young man I knew; we were inseparable, until he went away. And this post? Just took me all the way back to that life, the new guitars, the discoveries, different ways to strum and pick and tune and string and...

Thanks for that.

[annathepiper]

Aw! You are very, very welcome!