New planet!

[annathepiper]

Okay, I may be a little late to this particular bit of astronomical coolness; I do vaguely remember hearing rumblings about a 10th planet in our system some time ago, but as of today it's apparently been officially confirmed that we've got something bigger than Pluto circling around Sol, way the hell out there, and at a 45 degree angle off the rest of the planets in the system. Currently it's designated as "2003 UB313", which is in my humble opinion a sucky name--but apparently they don't get to give it a real name until the International Astronomical Union issues a ruling over whether this thing gets to be called a real planet.

Me, I'm hoping for a female touch to the Greco-Roman naming scheme we have going on in the system in general. Hecate would be a cool name for a 10th planet so far out there away from the sun. I would also take Persephone or Demeter (though risu very sensibly points out that the problem with naming it Persephone would be that six months later it'd careen inward to the heart of the system and probably smack into the Earth ;) ). Let's hear your naming suggestions for this 10th world, folks!

BBC link on the discovery

CNN link

Comments

[me-fein.livejournal.com]

Hel? Oh, wait, that's Norse.... :D

Yaaay! I was watching the news earlier and noticed the happy "discovery". I don't know how I feel about that word/concept. I mean, it's new to us, but it's not like it just appeared there a few days ago. LOL

I think Hecate would be an awesome name although "Persephone" just makes me think of Firefly and then I'm back to procrastinating about my writing and sighing about naked Mal and hot, sexy Inara...and cute Kaylee!

...Leaving now....! LOL (or should I have said "I'll be in my bunk."?????)

[annathepiper]

Hee! Hel would be cool--and hey, Earth breaks the naming scheme by not being Greek or Roman, so!

Good catch about the Firefly connection--but having taken a turn around Wikipedia this evening, I am reminded that we've already used another name that's shown up in the Firefly canon, too. I.e., Ariel! It's one of the moons of Uranus.

Also, mmmmmmm MAL. Also, mmmmm Kaylee!

[annathepiper]

Um, hon, what's your source for that being the planet's "official" name? I have never seen Earth referred to as Terra outside science fiction, and sometimes pagan/religious contexts. solarbird's not finding anything on Google, either, and that includes Encyclopedia Britannica.

On Wikipedia's Earth page:

'Earth, also known as the Earth, Terra, and (mostly in the 19th century) Tellus, is the third planet outward from the Sun. It is the largest of the solar system's terrestrial planets, and the only planetary body that modern science confirms as harboring life. The planet formed around 4.57 billion (4.57×109) years ago, and shortly thereafter (4.533 billion years ago) acquired its single natural satellite, the Moon.'

On Wikipedia's Terra (mythology) page:

'Terra is also a name of the third planet in the Solar System, which is usually referred to as "Earth" instead. It was named after this goddess, in accordance to the general rule of naming planetary objects and satellites to Roman gods and goddesses.'

[annathepiper]

Well, see, here's the thing--in the case of animals and minerals and planets and fishes and the scientific names that you mention, there are internationally recognized authoritative bodies that hand out those scientific names. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such scientific recognition of 'Terra' as the official name of this planet.

The IAU that I mention in the top of this thread, according to its webpage, is, quote, "the internationally recognized authority for assigning designations to celestial bodies and any surface features on them", unquote. This would be why they're the authoritative body in charge of getting to say whether 2003 UB313 gets to be officially designated as a planet, at which point it should get an actual name.

(The BBC articles I read today also mentioned, tangentially, that the IAU recently discussed whether they ought to downgrade Pluto from planetary status for many of the same reasons that they're debating whether 2003 UB313 should be a planet--but they voted against doing so. So it'll be interesting to see if they decide this new body should also be called a planet, since Pluto is.)

Poking around on their web page so far, I see no references to any official decisions about the name of the planet we're on, and so far the only external link I've followed off their site, the Gazetteer of Planetary Nomenclature, calls us 'Earth'.

[avram]

Since it’s out in the Kuiper cometary belt, I’d vote for “Nemesis”.

[annathepiper]

Ooh, cool, I hadn't heard about this old theory. ^_^ Surely someone has written SF about this? "Demon Sun" certainly sounds like it ought to be a pulp SF title!

[cafiorello.livejournal.com]

A SF Chron article states:

Informally, the astronomers have been calling it "Xena" after the television series about a Greek warrior princess, which was popular when the astronomers began their systematic sweep of the sky in 2000. "Because we always wanted to name something Xena," Brown said...

[starfallz.livejournal.com]

...

[annathepiper]

Bwahaha! That's rich. :D

[starfallz.livejournal.com]

Hm.... since all the names in the solar system are Roman, and not Greek, Persephone would be out and Proserpina would be in instead. I'd like Minerva, myself. :D

[starfallz.livejournal.com]

All the planet names, I mean.

[annathepiper]

Uranus is valid in both Greek and Roman mythos, I believe. Though given a choice between Persephone and Proserpina, I'd vote for Persephone any day--it just flows better!

[annathepiper]

Ah, here's a Wikipedia link on Uranus that mentions that it was specifically named after the Greek edition of the god in question, rather than Caelus, his Roman counterpart.

[starfallz.livejournal.com]

Sou ka sou ka. He was never prominent enough in Greek mythology for me to realize he was Greek. XD

[annathepiper]

Yeah, I didn't remember where he figured into the mythos myself!

[cats-haven.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I've heard about that. I think hecate would be good, or perhaps Janus would good since this planet is way the hell out there. being so far out, we could break from the Greco-Roman stuff and shift Egyptian and use Anubis or Aker.

[annathepiper]

Ooh, Anubis would be cool! So would Janus.

I'd say 'Hades', except that that's the Greek equivalent of, well, Pluto! So that connection's already been made for planets Way the Hell Out there. ;) Though it'd be funny if any of the objects in the Kuiper belt did actually get tagged as Hades.

[cats-haven.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Hades as well just to go with the Way the Hell Out There bit. If one is named Hades, it would be by someone who doesn't know the conenction between Hades and Pluto. That would end up being humorous as we point it out to them. :)

[annathepiper]

*snicker* Actually, I'd fully expect the IAU to be aware of the connection--these are supposed to be a pack of internationally recognized scientists and such, from what I've gleaned off their site. (And I'll admit I had to actually look up what the Roman version of Hades was--I genuinely didn't recollect it until I found 'Pluto' and went 'oh yeah, DUH'.)

If Hades were to be shot down as a name, I'd more expect it to be because of the common use of it as a synonym for Hell rather than being repetitive due to Pluto already being used.

[annathepiper]

Oo, Themis! I like that one! Good connection with Uranus, too!

Eris would also be oddly appropriate with the whole aspect of 2003 UB313 being offset off the orbital plane of the rest of the system.

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

Being a 'HitchHikers' fan, I'm obviously going with Rupert.

Gina

[annathepiper]

Man, it's been far too long since I've read any Douglas Adams, and I only read the first three Hitchhiker books. Remind me of the reference here?

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

It's from 'Mostly Harmless', the fifth book, so you probably wouldn't know it:

Last week astronomers had announced that they had at last discovered a tenth planet, out beyond the orbit of Pluto. ... The planet was named Persephone, but rapidly nicknamed Rupert after some astronomer's parrot...

Gina

[annathepiper]

A-ha! *snicker* Thanks!

Someday, someday, I shall read them. But I really ought to get more of the 'someday I'll read them' books already on my To Read shelves read first!

[shikyrie.livejournal.com]

well, we've got "uranus" - so, how about "urpenis"

ok, so I'm rambling in my half awakedness, pay me no mind... how about- "QonoS" :)

[annathepiper]

well, we've got "uranus" - so, how about "urpenis"

*rolls eyes* Serious names, please.

ok, so I'm rambling in my half awakedness, pay me no mind... how about- "QonoS" :)

Clearly this is a Klingon reference, but I am inadequately Trek-geeky to get the reference, so what is it?

Also, I couldn't see them actually using it regardless, so it's probably out. From what I've been seeing in my explorations of Wikipedia's pages on the naming conventions that the International Astronomical Union uses to name celestial objects, they do pull from a variety of terrestrial mythologies, but so far they have not pulled any official names from fictional sources. I've seen them pull a great number of names out of Greek and Roman mythos, but names are also coming out of Inuit and Norse mythos, and names of stars are often Arabic.

Several folks have suggested cool names on the rest of this thread, but it actually turns out that many of them have already been used for asteroids and various and sundry objects out in the Kuiper Belt.

[shikyrie.livejournal.com]

*rolls eyes* Serious names, please.

told ya I was tired and to ignore me :-p

ok, so I'm rambling in my half awakedness, pay me no mind... how about- "QonoS" :)

Clearly this is a Klingon reference, but I am inadequately Trek-geeky to get the reference, so what is it?

it is klingon, but i bet if there were enough trekkers wanting it, they'd name it as such... but to go with the traditional greco-roman theme, QonoS is equally translated to "Chronos" (god of time?)

[annathepiper]

If you're going to make crude comments on my journal that I should ignore anyway, hon, you could just try not making the comments in the first place. ;)

As for Trekkers influencing the IAU--um, I kind of doubt it. Not that I don't think astronomical types in general wouldn't ever name a celestial body after a fictional reference; in fact, there have been mentions that the discoverers of 2003 UB313 have been jokingly nicknaming it 'Xena', i.e., after the warrior princess. However, the same articles I've read have also specifically said that this is not the name they've submitted for actual consideration to the IAU, which is the internationally recognized authority for deciding on these names.

Here's what I think the problems are with using fictional references. You run the risk of it being too centered on the culture and time period that created the fictional work in question. So something out of Star Trek could conceivably be too focused on American culture of the late 20th century. Especially if it's a reference that probably wouldn't mean much to non-English-speaking cultures. I doubt most Trek fans besides the really hardcore ones would remember a given Klingon reference, and if it won't mean much outside a given subset of the fandom, I can guarantee you it won't mean much to non-English-speaking cultures. (Which is an important consideration when you have to remember that the IAU IS an international organization. They have to think about this kind of thing.)

One could argue that Trek has had worldwide impact, and I actually wouldn't debate that--but since the Klingon reference actually would only be interesting to a subset of the fandom, I think it would be better to use something that would have broader appeal. E.g., naming something after one of the main characters, the characters who are really responsible for the show having lasting impact on popular culture. (For example, I think naming something 'Uhura' would be rather cool.)

As for 'Chronos'--hrmm. According to Wikipedia, that was actually an earlier name for Saturn. Interesting. That alone might shoot it down for consideration as the name for a different planet, though on the other hand, there have been duplications of names where one might, say, be a moon and another might be an asteroid or something out in the Kuiper Belt.

[ravyngyngvar.livejournal.com]

Well, trekkers did influence NASA to name the first space shuttle "Enterprise." Admittedly, that was the prototype, used only for testing its aerodynamic properties, and calling it a space shuttle is a little dubious since it never went into space.

One of the first web pages I bookmarked, maybe the very first, was The Nine Planets (http://www.nineplanets.org). It's very nice to see that the page I remember from way back then is still there, especially since very little else remains from way back then, though right now they seem to have a little problem with its name. :-)

I am worried about myself, though. One of the many lapses in memory I've had recently was that I confused Kepler with Copernicus. I used to be a whiz in these things.

[annathepiper]

Ah, but see, you underscore my very point. The name "Enterprise" is so well known, even outside Trek fandom, that it has immediate impact. A more obscure reference that only devoted Trek fans would get would lose that impact.

I saw the Nine Planets page you mention while surfing around this weekend, yes! Cool. :)

And if it makes you feel any better, I'd probably confuse Kepler and Copernicus too!

[dr-pretentious.livejournal.com]

How about Hekate? I've got my handy copy of Hesiod's Theogony here, and Hekate's looking like a fine candidate. Does Rhea already have something named after her?

[annathepiper]

Ooh, I'm not sure if I like Hekate better than Hecate--both read quite well.

Rhea, however, is taken and doubly so! According to Wikipedia, it is both a moon of Saturn and an asteroid.