And just for the sake of Avram

[annathepiper]

So Avram, what was it you would have been happier about? :)

Comments

A happier me

[avram]

Well, about halfway through the episode, I was thinking Gee, wouldn’t it solve a whole lot of problems if someone with a legitimate gripe against Warren were to say, in Anya’s presence, something like “I wish Warren had never been born?” Or, if that screws with the universe too much, “I wish Warren had been hit by a bus on the way to Buffy’s house.” Or even “I wish Warren’s gun had misfired and exploded in his hand, blowing his fingers off but harming nobody else.” OK, maybe there’s some reason this wouldn’t have worked, but shouldn’t it least have been brought up?

Then I thought about it some more. Nobody in the Scooby Gang has any direct memory of the time Cordy’s wish altered the universe, except possibly Anya. But all that did get brought up in “Dopplegangland” (the one with leather vampire bisexual Willow, the one that “Bored now!” comes from), but I don’t remember who knows how much. I kicked the idea around with some friends this afternoon, but they couldn’t remember either. It was a long time ago, and we’re not in the habit of rewatching eps a lot, and besides, there were other, um, distracting things in that episode.

More thoughts

[avram]

Who knows that Anya has once against taken up her vengeful ways? Anya knows, of course, and Zander, but who else?

Re: More thoughts

[candle-light.livejournal.com]

Buffy knows. It becomes when she and Xander and Anya are heading back to Xanders car after Warren was flayed. Xanders car was trashed, and Anya teleports to the jail to warn Jonathan & Andrew. There is some comment from Buffy about Anya that makes it apparent that she knows. Dawn may also figure it out, since Anya teleported into the pit when Dawn & Buffy were trapped.

Re: More thoughts

[avram]

And that happens in the first few minutes of the episode, and Buffy had later face time with Anya, so she could have thought of it. Zander knew, and could have thought of it. Willow could easily have figured it out, and done something to preempt it. (I wonder if that’s what the writers originally had planned — Willow does something and then says “That’ll keep Anya from interfering” — but then didn’t have enough time for.)

Oh, there’s an idea — It’s strongly implied that Andrew is gay, with a crush on Warren (though in denial about both). He’s a demonologist, and so should know lots about vengence demons. If he was convinced that Warren had abandoned him and Jonathan, he’d be pretty darn close to Anya’s specialty. That could have been interesting, but it’s not a flaw in the show that that particular avenue wasn’t explored.

Re: More thoughts

[candle-light.livejournal.com]

I believe it has been implied (by Hafrek among others) that Anya's speciality is womens vengeance, so that would rule out Andrew using her.

Anya was talking to someone (I can't remeber who), and said that Willow had refused Anyas services (it was mentioned that Anya would be "called" to Willow by her anguish) because Willow wanted to do it herself. It could follow that Willow had also protected the three-some to keep their deaths for herself.

Re: More thoughts

[avram]

I think it’s also been implied (or even outright stated) that the specialties are just preferences, and not limitations.

Re: More thoughts

[agrimony.livejournal.com]

I think actually the problem is that the only one who /really/ wanted vengeance on Warren was Willow, and she didn't need Anya's help to get it. Buffy was angry with him, but she wanted him to face justice, not vengeance. Same with Xander.

People were, really, too concerned with getting Willow back than they were with getting vengeance on Warren for what he did. And Andrew was pretty much in denial about Warren up until the point where he and Jonathan took off for Mexico.

Re: More thoughts

[avram]

Vengeance demons haven’t seemed quite so picky in the past. It didn’t seem to me that Dawn really wanted vengeance on the Scooby Gang for not paying attention to her, but that didn’t stop the other demon (Hafrek?) from enacting Dawn’s wish.

Re: More thoughts

[annathepiper]

I suppose one could chalk that up to individual vengeance demons working in different ways, who knows.